Oh dear wont start

As i told you all last week  i was hopeful that i would purchase my 1st MK1 clipper cabriolet, unfortunately  i could not get it to start, the guy who owned it was kind enough to leave the keys with his mother so i didn’t want to do too much without his consent.

  I managed to fit a newly charged battery and could see lights on the dash, when turning the engine over all i could here is a small click which was coming from a bodged relay that looks as if its been fitted as a engine start switch, as i said i didn’t want to do to much hacking without the guy being there, there was a puddle of water in the driver’s side footwell, this was due to the driver side handle of the roof being snapped leaving a huge gap, the underside seems really good and te petrol pipe is perfect not rusted, there is a small amount of rust where the hinge goes into the body of the passenger door, it does look as if someone with no electrical knowledge has bodged wiring etc like the aftermarket push to start button.

i would like to know the correct wiring that should be installed from the coil as i suspect this is the case, I’m not sure where the starter is also.

I’ve took a hepl of pictures so would love to hear your thoughts gents.

thanks Dazza
 

Is it manual or auto?

Also I guess being a clipper it's got a carb?

Do you have a picture of the fuse box and relays you can post up?

My suspicions are from "I don't know where the starter is". If you open the bonnet of a manual Clipper and can't find the starter motor, you should close the bonnet, phone up a garage/mechanic and pay them to fix it.

The auto, however, has the starter motor underneath the manifolds and its far from obvious where it is!

It could be a number of things but the auto has a start inhibit switch (combined with the reverse lamp switch, in the shifter) so it needs to be in P or N (and the switch to work properly, and the wires and connectors etc etc)

paul_c said

Is it manual or auto?

Thanks mate its an auto

mark1gls said

Also I guess being a clipper it's got a carb?

Do you have a picture of the fuse box and relays you can post up?

Hi mate yes it does have a carb, i will try and get some pics on later

paul_c said

My suspicions are from "I don't know where the starter is". If you open the bonnet of a manual Clipper and can't find the starter motor, you should close the bonnet, phone up a garage/mechanic and pay them to fix it.

The auto, however, has the starter motor underneath the manifolds and its far from obvious where it is!

It could be a number of things but the auto has a start inhibit switch (combined with the reverse lamp switch, in the shifter) so it needs to be in P or N (and the switch to work properly, and the wires and connectors etc etc)

 a ha, i was suspecting some one would say that, it is indeed a auto that explains it, i didnt want to jack it up, and couldnt get under neath enough to have a look.
i will post some pictures latter today.

i was thinking of taking a spare battery with some jump leads, place the earth wire on the engine and red on the starter in p or N to see if the starter spins.

whats your thoughts

What i really could use is the wiring diagram of the ignition system along with any wiring that comes from the gear lever, in order to bypass the messy wiring that some clown has fitted.

The auto starters are subject to heat soak and will fail to turn over let alone "Click" when you go to start them after running down the road.

How to replace your starter in an automatic:
Automatic Starter Removal/Install | Volkswagen Owners Club Forum

There is a heat shield on the Starter that is held inplace by a 13mm bolt using a short socket and a wobble extension helps you to get it out.

There is a Wire that you need to look for, as if you Jumper that straight to the battery, then your starter should spin, of it doesn't then you have a dead starter.

It runs across the top of the transmission.


If your starter is bad there are 2 types, a Solid Flex plate and a Spoked Flex plate.

You have to get under the car and look at where the Torque Convertor attaches to the flex plate by 3 10mm  12pt bolts.  The Starters are not interchangeable and can ruin your flex plate.   

The only way to know is to look at the end of the starter (bolted against tranny so you have to remove it.)
On the circled areas there are protrusions on the starter nubs that denote a spoked flex plate starter.  The solid flex plate is not nubbed.
This is a Solid flex plate starter


This is where the nubs or protrusions are located.


Here are the two types of flex plates.




The starter if wrong are matched will chew up your flex plate and they are getting harder and harder to find.

I forgot to add that you will want to install a heat soak relay as this will stop the starter from not working after a long drive.
https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?2593146-Starter-relay-for-heatsoak-problems
 

Hi Guys ive been over to free the wheels up tonight took 2 mins, so i'm getting it lifted to my drive within the next few days, so my priorities are finding the right haynes manual can any one help i cant seem to find the correct 1

I'm exited        

as promised guys

The relay doesn't look standard so I could only guess that its for. You could trace wires etc if you really wanted though.

Probably best waiting for your Haynes manual to arrive, it has decent wiring diagrams. I can't remember what might be the best one these days (or even if still available - I imagine secondhand is possible). If its a later cabriolet, I think I'd go for the Mk1 manual rather than Mk2 Golf of the correct year, since the car will be mostly Mk1 although a few bits and bobs were updated in later years (bigger hubs, oil cooler variation, dim-dip, etc). Nothing much changed on starting circuit though.

Well guys its on my drive Yipeeee.

Cant wait for the weekend, when i get 5 i will donate but haven't a paypal account.

I'm determined to get this baby to turn over,

oh i realisedthat it says karmen on the side, whats the difference gents

Difference between what?

paul_c said

Difference between what?

Sorry pal , what does karmen actually mean is there any difference to a standard clipper ?

The Cabriolet, the Golf Vert, as well as the Cabriolet Clipper were all designed by the Karmann Coach Works so they are all Karmann,,,,,,Nothing special there.

Karmann is the manufacturer of the car. The cabby wasn’t made by Volkswagen at the Wolfsburg plant they were too busy making the tin top and didn’t want to disrupt production there.
So Karmann coach works were given the task of designing and building the cabby.
It’s not a tin top with the roof chopped off.
It was fully produced by Karmann with only the engine and running gear provided by VW.
There’s no such thing as a “Karmann Edition” like some people often label the car claiming it’s a rare limited edition and worth thousands.
All Cabbies were made at Karmann coach works even those destined for the USA, North American markets.
The Karman Wing badges are a tribute to the Karmann factory where the car was built.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hi Chaps, I've a bit of an update, today was a very successful day, i managed to get the golf running and was pretty overwhelmed when i heard that engine, i cant believe how good it sounds.

I left it running for some time to get it to temperature, i switched it off then started it again with no issues, i pulled it back and fourth and was delighted, in fact i decided to take it round the block so i could really feel what the car was about.

I was made up, it pulls like a train and sounds superb what a fun drive.

The brakes were shocking, and road handling when going round corners felt rollish like if that makes sense.
I'm thinking about upgraded the brakes and may be suspension, changed the oil along with the gear box oil.

not sure when i will have time to get back at it but i do enjoy mentally getting prepared for the next jobs.

i would love to hear your experiences with the jobs ive yet to do.

Thanks again for all who have been very helpfull to date