1.8 8v turbo technics HELLLLLLLP please

get some pics up so we can have a look.

mk1turbo said

dmark,

We ought to have a sticky thread / register on who owns Turbo Technics converted cars. Would be nice to find out how many are still around. Also Turbtechnicsmk1 might cream his pants over them.

I did start a thread to try and pick up some info a few days ago but haven't had much response so far ?

strangely enough the fuel lines are still on the correct side, not about to give up just yet lol, it's got huge potential just don't know much about these yet.
suppose it just would'nt be right if everything was easy.
 i'll try and get some detailed pics up tomorrow

The man with the cream has arrived   (I'll get turbo'd Mk1 later !!).

DMark - you have pm.

Some first thoughts though, and surprised it hasnt been suggested yet, but here goes:-
1. Compression Test ?
2. Fueling Flow Check (CO2 reading etc) - coudl be fuel pump is low on delivery rate ?
3. Ignition timing checked ? what you got it set at, what rpm did you ste it at etc ?
4. Taken off the fuel filter to see if any crud comes out ?

Dizi's are special for the TT cars (if no ecu type) as in they are modified units to work differently on boost etc. they wont work in a std engine ( Itried mine and it ran like a dog !!) - TT used to be able to check the curves on them if you sent the Dizi to them (But i havent had that doen for around 10 years now !!).

fueling - std Injectors, std pump, std WUR unit, the important part is the metering head that was machined internally to alter the fueling for boost, so as the boost came on, the difference in the metering head basically supplied more fuel.

So,if you have crud in your fuel system (And i think most mk1 owners know what the impact is on a std car) then think what it would be like on a car that needs more fuel. It could be soemthig this simple, hence a fueling check.

Anyways - some food for thought - hope it helps, look forward to more info etc.

thanks for getting back to me turbtechnics  
right todays progress:   started off by checking the wastegate actuator and low and behold BROKE, paid a visit to aet turbos, new actuator, bleed valve and boost guage installed and guess what problem 90% solved.
just need to confirm a few particulars now, i know the injectors are knackered so new will be going in tomorrow, what should base fuel pressure be on idle and what psi at what revs? also checked co it's at around 5 ish% at idle and drops rapidly when revs are increased, ignition timing was at 6 deg btdc at idle which appeared to drop back to about 48 deg btdc (if i'm doing this correctly coz me strobe is a bit old and decrepid) @ 4000 rpm which didn't drive too bad then set it to 0 deg btdc at idle which dropped it to around 28 deg btdc and drove qiute flat and lumpy.
checked compession too from cold: no1 was at 120 psi, no2,3,and 4 were all around 150 psi which i think is a little high for any turbo'd car.
boost wise is at 6 psi and doesn't reach full boost until around 4,500 rpm is this normal.
not done fuel pressure check yet until i've had a look at the metering head.
 i think that's everything :? .
gonna try and bung some pics on now

Good stuff

glad to hear your getting somewhere mark

chris

wastegate actuator | dmark2011 | Flickr
turbo | dmark2011 | Flickr
http://www.flickr.com/photos/63389062@N08/5759644044/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/63389062@N08/5759100001/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/63389062@N08/5759641742/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/63389062@N08/5759640428/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/63389062@N08/5759638888/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/63389062@N08/5759637172/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/63389062@N08/5759635600/
apologies for the dark pics it was dark in me workshop today  

ok…..  so how do i make these pics visible without the links?

DMArk - good news that you;ve find something thats broken (in a strange, bad news its broken but good news its something cheap so far!!  :wink: ).
So -  few comments re your findings:-

BLEED VALVE FITTED - this scares me my friend if its where it bleeds off air on the pipe to the actuator fooling it into thinking its not hit the boost level to start working - TT's are dare i say a bit sensitive to fueling with boost, so unless it had a bleed valve already fitted, i would personally not have one at all. The Actuator should do its job quite of holding the boost at the TT levels (I'll need to go and refresh my brain on boost levels, but i think they were 0.45bar from the factory) without a bleed valve.
boost is somewhat "old school style" eg, it should dial in full boost and holds it continuosly, not build boost as the revs climb (may do a tiny bit but not by that much). Mine is normally on maximum boost by circa 3000/3,500 rpm and holds it till you change gear. You'll find they get a bit lean at the top end, so feel flat after about 5,500 ownwards.

So, 90% of the problem is fixed - whats it now doing as the final 10% ? Whats not quiet right and will try and give some pointers.

Also, will check igntion details for you and come back and confirm for the mk1.

Couple of other things from your piccies:-
1. Cant seem to see if the overboost switch is fitted. its normally mounted on the front of the cast unit that joins the intake pipe to the throttle body. I think in the piccie i can see the point where it goes but look slike it has somehtig else in the hole ? If its not fitted get one added asap - its the only thing that will stop you trashiung the engine if the Actuator fails, adn the turbo overboosts. Too mcuh boost and not enough fuel may be fund for a while - but dont be surprised if it blows the head gasket, or worst holes a piston or splits them (I've had this happen and it means a rebuild);

2. Looks like the support rods that hold the above unit to the throttle housing are also missing ? Can you send me a closer picture of that whole area as i thin you haev soem bits not fitted. Basically there are two threaded rods that hold the whole lot together to stop them from blowing apart under boost. Put up another close up piccie and i can check to see if they are fitted and also if the overboost switch is also there.

3. Metering Head - whats the HUUUGE metal washer thing on the top doing ? thats not normal on TT cars either. Is it just plugging a hole in the rubber unit ? if so, not too bothered about it, but just intriged as to what it does.

4. By the disi in the piccie you'll see a hose with a unit with 2 wires coming off of it. That end of the hose should be connected to the disi, and then the other end of the hose thats currently on your disi should be on the other end and go to the back of the inlet manifold - its a small point but as its there you should connect it up properly. that also might make a difference to the final 10% problem thats left  :wink: unless of course you had all the hoses disconnected when you were checking timing etc. ?

Fianlly -sorry about the typo's   , but i think the above is readable !!

morning turbtechnics, thanks for that info your a legend    
right i've done a bit more investigating and it seems that the owner before the guy i bought the car off had just turbo'd a standard 8v gti, he's not sure wether the guy had done it properly but the previous owner said he had no trouble with it in 2 years, which now really worries me.
unsure on the the throttle body studs you mentioned but the bit with the 2 holes in it is welded to the throttle body :?
as for the other bits that are missing i don't think they were there to start with i think i just thought it was a turbo technics conversion due to it having a TT turbo on it.
i'm presuming the big washer on the metering head intake boot is there to stop it being sucked flat on boost???
what did you think to the compressions are these normal or does it need lowering?
and finally if i'm missing loads of bits what do i need and can i get hold of them and can they be fitted if it is a standar gti lump and loom?
feel like i've had one step forward and 3 steps back   
i'll get some more detailed pics up later

IMO if is isnt sounding like a bag of nails then nothing important is broken and is still rescueable with a few extra bits. Im sure turbtechnics has said that he had run standard pistons before but im sure machining them is a good recomendation.  

I love the MIMs. I used to have a set of those on a GTI Engineering MK1 i had 15 years ago. I miss that car.

Dmark - so no panic just yet - but lets put a few more things thru the mill so to speak:-

Turbo'ing a std 8v lump:- all depends what he's possibly done to get the compression lower, or if he's done that at all.
Turbo'd MK1 is right - mine ran std pistons for a number of years - used to really fly as well like that. Only realised when it went bang and holed 2 pistons and split them thru'. Took it apart and found std pistons. Mine never missed a beat for 2 years as well.

The compression Test only shows condition of engine, there isn't a way to work this back to static CR, this is the part you would need to know to see if its been tweaked internally to run the boost with no major problems. the only way to see if its been tweaked on the CR is to basically check the top end, so either whip the head off, or if you know someone with one of those wonderful spy hole camera things that will fit inside the plug hole that would allow you to see the tops of the pistons. TT pistons are in simple terms (without going thru the drawings I have) machined on the top to remove the raised lip of the back and the piston bowl is then centralised. This along with the headgasket is used to lower the Static CR to suit the Turbo. From memory I think they were around 8.5:1. I will try and check for you though (its along time since I've had to remember or look thru my stash of stuff for this info   )

Disi - only one way as far as I know to tell if its a TT one and that is to get it tested for advance curve. Another possible way is if you have a mate with a MK1 GTI, stick your disi in his car and take it for a drive. It will run like a bag of poop, wont like being put under load etc, this would show its a non std disi (mine made a std GTI lump run very poorly). If it runs fine with it fitted in a std GTI lump I would suspect its a std Disi, not suited to the boost requirements and hence could cause pinking /detonation.

Big Washer on top of the metering flap:- never ever seen this before on any cars. So it got me thinking. TT metering heads are have very very little resistance in the plate, you can basically lift them with your finger nail and its doesn't feel as "tight" as std GTI version. so I wondered if its got a std GTI one fitted and due to the increases resistance it might try and suck the bellow flat, so to compensate its had the huge washer thing fitted. Mines never ever gone flat, not even when you watch it on the rolling road, so its just strange its fitted. Might be worth seeing what the resistance in the flap is like. I can check mine for part numbers etc to at least see if the part tallies up, but it wouldn't confirm if they have machined the cone or internals though.


Missing Bits - based on the piccie - the main parts are all there. The other parts are small bits n bobs you should be able to pick up (like the over boost switch for example). The more complicated parts are the throttle to pipe parts, but again you can buy ball socket pivots nowadays, and threaded bar and make these bits, the only part that would then be missing is the rubber part to join the throttle to the oval adaptor pipe from the inlet pipe, but I'm sure a silicon hose company could do this part. You do really need this bit fitted as although its ok for now, the TT engines do move A LOT on full boost, even with uprated mounts. You'd be surprised how it looks like they are about to leap out from the bay. This flexi set-up stops things from breaking / coming apart etc due to movement.

Last bit for you: ignition timing: My details on my Plate are as follows: Spark Plugs: NGK BP7ES; Ignition setting - no vacuum: 28 Deg BTDC @ 4000rpm.
It should drive ok with these settings, shouldn't feel overly flat or lumpy, boost should come on and it shouldn't rattle lots thru the rev range. If its rattling lots I would say its detonating. Shame it hasn't got a 2 stage boost set-up as if it did you could have set it to low boost and took it for a drive to see how it felt.

Hope this helps, get the piccies up, or I will try and take a few of mine for you to see what I mean.
Let us know how things progress….

wow you're ace  
right a tew things checked today:
tested the fuel pressure, basically put a t into the feed off the metering head to the warm up reg and it was about 80 psi which i think is normal (well for a std gti anyway) thing is when i put the guage on the car struggled to rev so i took the guage off and it still struggled to rev  not sure what's gone off there, will try and find out tomorrow tho.
checked the dish in the MH it didn't seem to be tight but it did'nt seem all that different to a standard gti tho.
 MH part numbers are bosch: 0438 100 925 and other one being: 117 286 925
gonna pull head off anyway to see why comp is down on no1 pot, if the pistons haven't been macined i have some g60 pistons if they would be any good but what head gasket would suit?
forgot to take more pics today been a bit busy not had much time on it.
some pics of yours would really help if you can  

Quattro Pistons and G60 head gasket.

You want pics of Turbtechnics engine bay?? You'll be lucky. You cant get anywhere near the car in his garage for all the spares he has knocking about lol
Looking forward to seeing it after your ebay clear out matey :0)

mk1turbo said

You want pics of Turbtechnics engine bay?? You'll be lucky. You cant get anywhere near the car in his garage for all the spares he has knocking about lol
Looking forward to seeing it after your ebay clear out matey :0)

Now there's a "challenge"   . I can always stand on the stuff thats in the way, we best hurry up and finish these seats then, that would be four things moved  

I have the piccies from the Mag shoot to hand - will see whats useful in those and post 'em up :wink:

excellent lets see them  

Ok, here's a few piccies for you so you can see what they look like when put together:-

Engine bay - (the bling is going back to standard Satin Black as we speak)


Turbo Technics Boost Gauge as they are fitted with when converted. Normally these are mounted in the centre console but i got fed up with trying to watch for boost mid way thru corners   , so moved it up to the radio area. got a better mounting plate for it to go in as well now, more like the original dash surround textured finish:-


The Throttle assembly part. Note the extra rubber section between throttle housing and pipe adaptor, and the threaded joiners on ball and socket joints. also the adaptor plates mounted on the throttle. Also in the adaptor pipe the round canister with 2 wires on it - thats the overboost switch to cut the ignition if the turbo delivers too much boost:-


And finally…… a shameless plug of the whole car from the Mag shoot several years ago. Its still just as clean and some things have gone back to standard (grill, lights etc) but as Mk1Turbo pointed out its currently burried under stuff in my garage  , but may see the light of day this year (if i can get my finger out  & he naggs me to get my finger out a bit more :wink: ) :-


Hoep this helps, lets you spot the differences to yours.

One other thought - you might want to check the picton sizes on those G60's as i'm not entirely sure if they are the same size. MK1 turbo and the recommendation on the G60 headgasket is a good one, they are metal adn not the fibre type you normally get so work better with the Turbo cars.

One other final thought - as you have the important parts, eg turbo, manifold, intercooler etc, you could always go and search out a G60 engine and injection. Bolt the Turbo to that, get the ECU chipped and its good for 200bhp. It may be easier than trying to sort out fueling and disi if those are std bits.

Let us know how things are progressing.  :wink:

this is mine after i ditched the cis 206bhp/230ftlbs@16psi .its my daily drive and runs like a dream and you can drive it like its meant too, its on omex 600 and no longer needs the dizzy as on coilpack , i can tell you more if anyone is interested?
inside

IMG_0440 by photos for people, on Flickr
outside

Sounds good but i like the Old skool 80's tuning and originality of the Turbo Technics conversion as they are getting a bit thin on the ground.
K-Jet all the way :0)