I bought the wrong brake overhaul kit :(

As a two week old owner of my Golf '87 Cabriolet 1.8 EX I guess I need to make some newbie mistakes and I think I hit the first one now. I had my car checked last week and the report card told me the rear brakes was not good enough and the parking break was only at 50% on one side.

So I went to vwheritage and ordered a rear brake overhaul kit - https://www.vwheritage.com/171698700-rear-brake-overhaul-kit-vw-spare. The package was at my place a few days later and when I started the work today I noticed something was not right.

From what I can tell I do NOT have the pressure regulator version, so the brake cylinders are not the same. (And maybe something else?).

What should I do? Order correct brake cylinders and assume the rest is the same? Order new back plate with room for the pressure regulator brake cylinder? Return the overhaul kit and buy the correct overhaul kit?

Second question - looking at the pictures - would you agree the problem can be somewhere else? The brakes does not look that old and worn out from my point of view.

Being in Norway the shipping and tax-fees is quite steep so I hope I don't have to return the kit Included is pictures of the current setup at my car.

in 30 years owning VWs I've never had rear shoes wear out, 90% of the braking is done by the front disks, rears are almost just for the hand brake….

What usually happens is the rear cylinder either seizes up and don't push the shoes or leaks and covers the shoes in slippy brake fluid. It looks like someone have as replaced the shoes but not the cylinders?

Your car will have pressure regulators but unlike the gubbins attached to a spring on the back axle like earlier cars the regulators are cylindrical thingys under the brake servo in engine bay.

 

Early-1800 said

in 30 years owning VWs I've never had rear shoes wear out, 90% of the braking is done by the front disks, rears are almost just for the hand brake….
What usually happens is the rear cylinder either seizes up and don't push the shoes or leaks and covers the shoes in slippy brake fluid. It looks like someone have as replaced the shoes but not the cylinders?
Your car will have pressure regulators but unlike the gubbins attached to a spring on the back axle like earlier cars the regulators are cylindrical thingys under the brake servo in engine bay. 

Thank you for looking at this - you have 1558 weeks ahead of me in VW experience

What would you recommend? Clean everything up and keep the current parts? Or buy the correct wheel cylinders and replace everything just to be sure?

I'm guessing https://www.vwheritage.com/171611051b-rear-brake-wheel-cylinder-vw-spare would be the  right choice and they are not that expensive.

If you already have the new parts I'd fit them, esp the cylinders.

As said I think you have the brake regulator but they are under the brake servo/master cylinder in engine bay. See this thread;

https://vwgolfmk1.org.uk/forum/index.php?page=topicview&id=technical%2Frunning-gear_2%2Frear-brake-regulator

Early-1800 said

If you already have the new parts I'd fit them, esp the cylinders.
As said I think you have the brake regulator but they are under the brake servo/master cylinder in engine bay. See this thread;
https://vwgolfmk1.org.uk/forum/index.php?page=topicview&id=technical%2Frunning-gear_2%2Frear-brake-regulator

Thank you!

I would clean the rear brake line with a wire brush to allow the nut to slide, then liberally spray the bejeezers out of the rear wheel cylinder brake line fitting.

I would also invest in new rubber rear brake hoses as well as the front.

Take plenty of Photos before you begin so you know which spring went where…









I have had to remove the bleeder undo the 2 two allens (you can use hex going back) that hold the rear wheel Cylinder on, and use a wrench and vice-grip to spin the wheel cylinder off the brake line.

Then clean everything up, Spray the Backing plates with a good enamel, add new rear wheel bearings and E-Brake cables and be totally done with the rears for a few years. That is if your drums are good.

Yes I suspect the clylinder was not changed because the brake line union will just round off or twist/shear off the brake pipe and you'll end up having to replace the solid line that runs down the trailing arm from the flexi pipe, which in turn will prob be a rusty blob that won't undo.

Also in your pic it looks like the bleed nipple is already sheared off?

My tupence worth is heat and lots of it on that Union. Combine this with lots of WD40, wire brushing and a good helping of luck.

Like the guys say if you have the parts change them and Brian is correct get the back plate off and clean up it up will make rebuild easier and also will look a proper job.

In my dim and distant past we used to use an old paint brush and some white grease and paint the break lines to stop the rot. Yes all dirt and mess does stick to them but a simple wipe with a cloth when needing to undo stuff was all that it needed. I would recommend greasing over the section that connects to the brake cylinder and a few inches back at least when you have it rebuilt and then if there is a next time it will be easier.

Remember one job at s time and do it well. What takes 1/2 a day this time will be 1/2 an hour next one you give it the right amount of love.


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whats the difference in the cylinders? I thought they were the same for both. I would replace the hard lines anyway as look well past it. back plates don't look great so I would change those over buying the other cylinders

sporttrucker said

whats the difference in the cylinders? I thought they were the same for both. I would replace the hard lines anyway as look well past it. back plates don't look great so I would change those over buying the other cylinders

There are a couple of places that sell different looking Cylinders than are normal looking.  I would suspect that they are probably the same, but they look different.

The Proportional load sensor was attached to the rear of the Caddy I thought similar to the Cabriolet of a couple of years (83/84).  

If you have to cut the Brake line off,,, buying a new one isn't that hard, as over here there are places where you can buy straight replacement pipes, you just have to bend them to fit, if that is the road that you have to take, then invest in a Brake line bender, it makes 90 degree bends with out kinking the line.

If you have to cut the Brake line off,,, buying a new one isn't that hard, as over here there are places where you can buy straight replacement pipes, you just have to bend them to fit, if that is the road that you have to take, then invest in a Brake line bender, it makes 90 degree bends with out kinking the line.



Your man cave must be an Aladdin’s cave of tools if you have invested in all this kit over the years.

I take the hard done by route and beg:borrow all the use once a decade tools.


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My man cave was a mess…..


I tidied it up a wee bit.


But that was prior to last weeks move, and my stuff is all over the place,,, sad news is that I broke my Air compressor in the move Broke the manifold… so I have to source a new one… I have been buying tools a few at a time for over 45 years… I never toss a tool, I will occasionally replace them as they wear out…. I have one 13mm Combo box/open wrench that will do 14mm but that was about 20 years or wrenching…

Get some crow feet spanner's to undo any brake lines as less chance of rounding off the nuts as more contact with the faces.

Something like this but check the sizes as I can't remember the size of the nut?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sealey-Tools-CROWS-FEET-Crowfoot-Wrench-Spanner-Set-10pce-10mm-19mm-3-8-Drive/181240973732?epid=5017019988&hash=item2a32cdc9a4:g:QRMAAOSwmLlYB1OU

You need the 17mm brake cylinders for the cabriolet, early cars used the smaller cylinders 14mm cylinders are for cars without a pressure regulator. You can see your ones fitted are the bigger type, the smaller one look different and taper at the ends.

If you life up the rubber boot on the cyinder you will probably see it’s wet with brake fluid as it looks a little wet on the right hand side of cyinder.

Yes your bleed nipple has been sheared off.

I would give your backing plate a dam good clean and repaint it as long as you don't make any holes cleaning it.
I cover all my connections to the brake cyinder in copper grease to stop them rusting.

Thank you for providing helpful input everyone! I've decided to follow your advice and try to clean up the backing plates with sandblasting / repainting. By doing that I guess I will see if they need to be replaced or not.

And if I'm messing up the brake lines in the process then I'll concider it a good challenge to get to know the car better ;-)

I'm pretty sure I will be happier in the end if I do it proper this time.

espenlg said

I'm pretty sure I will be happier in the end if I do it proper this time.

So will the person you don't meet By Accident.

The rear line connection to Rubber hose mount can be a pita to work on.  If the drum connection looks like that then chances are the axle connection is the same… Brush the connections really good and Spray them with a penetrant oil, let it work do it a couple of days before a day before and an hour before….  

This is why I said if the rear connection looks like that then chances are the rubber bits are cracked and swollen, and probably need replacing as well.

Forget fitting rubber brake hoses, time to upgrade to braided brake hoses with a lifetime warranty and as they are stiffer you get a better, harder brake pedal as the walls of the brake hose do not expand like rubber hoses.

There's lots of kits out there for Mk1 golfs, 4 hoses is what you need.

Something like this but shop around for check price etc…

https://www.vwheritage.com/wc69804004p-goodridge-stainless-steel-braided-brake-hose-kit-vw-spare

Rubber replacements for cracked hoses work well, the SS jacketed ones with the Teflon core are most excellent as I have done it now to both my rides.  But some folks can't cough up for the SS…. as they were pricey back when I started to change mine over…

I have a hard pedal…

Briano1234 said

I have a hard pedal…

I thought this was a family friendly site.


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Braided hoses have seem to gone up a lot since I replaced mine, they used to be £40 for a set but that was about 10 years ago, VW heritage is now twice the price, as I said shop about and see if you can get a better deal.

Nothing wrong with new rubber hoses as if VW thought they was good enough when fitted new. I changed mine to braided as I'm in it for a long time and see me selling them any time soon so makes sense to fit stuff which will last. My K&N air filter has paid for it self already so hopping the braided hose will in time.  

Perhaps a silly question but there were two brake hoses included in the package. What good can they do? Can they be used to replace the last 10cm of the now copper brake lines?