The Tale of a Blown Head Gasket and a Sad Mk1 owner...

Hello folks,

Long story with short ending here. AVX 230X (1.6 GLi Cab) has been in our family since I bought it for my mum in 2005 for her 50th birthday. A few years later she gave it to me as she wasn't using it. It came to live in our garage and would potter out most weekends with my young kids on various adventures.

Around 6 years ago, it got kicked out of the house (around the same time I did…) and had been sat on the drive open to the elements not moving for about 5 years as I didn't have the cash to get anything sorted. We moved house a year ago and I vowed that no man would get left behind, so had AVX recovered to the local garage (Castle Garage in Ashby) to put it through its MOT and get it back to good working order, but in no rush as I had to sort the garage out at the new house.

After putting in a new fuel pump and cleaning the engine out of leaves (and probably rats) and a few other bits, AVX was prepped to get its MOT badge back, when it started leaking fuel out of the engine. The guys at Castle are very good, but advised that a specialist engine company was needed to get it to its best health and fix the engine.  So off AVX went to Spot Auto Engineering in Derby.

As they were taking the engine out anyway, I asked the guys at Spot to do everything they possibly could to put the engine in the best condition they could - list of what they did is attached. I also had the metering head refurbished by KMS. I picked AVX up from Spot (now with a 12,000 mile warranty on a 40 year old engine!) to drive it home. Whilst driving down the A50 for a junction, the clutch decided it didn't want to play anymore and it stuck in 4th. Getting it home was a bit of a challenge and there was what can only be described as "some smoke" from the clutch.

Amazingly, it made it all the way back to Castle Garage, engine dying about 5 meters before a parking spot. The guys at Castle sorted the clutch and fixed the gearbox for me and then it got it back home again.

Next issue then was that the battery started to drain over night. After many nights of troubleshooting and cursing with a multimeter, I couldn't figure it out, but something was drawing 2A when the car was turned off. I took it back to Castle who put a lot of time and effort into trying to find the fault.  The guy, James, who works on my Golf has 2 Mk1 Siroccos, so knows the cars and their engines  very well.

Eventually, after a few misleading "features" of AVX, meaning that we needed to clean up the rusting fuse board that was leaking current to spurious other fuses, it pointed to the alternator being the culprit that was eating all of the electricity, so it got swapped out and that did the trick. They also did a service replacing the coolant and the coolant was a nasty rusty brown colour.

I got AVX back again and took it for a good clean at the local car wash as it been in dire need of a good clean having been shown no sponge, water or vacuum cleaner for a good while. All of the above trials and tribulations took 14 months to complete.

The car wash did an ace job and I'm in love with AVX in all of its shiny glory again.

To celebrate I went to pick the kids up from school in AVX. When I left Castle Garage, I noticed a slight knocking noise in the engine. After picking up the kids that afternoon the knocking was still there and the power was very low and the car seemed very hot inside.

When we were driving home, white smoke started coming out of the exhaust. I didn't know what this meant and thought it was the engine clearing out some of the 5 years worth of gremlins in there. We promptly broke down.

A quick check under the bonnet, I'm no mechanic and don't have a clue what I'm looking at, but the coolant was empty. A friend of ours lived close by and I asked them to bring a bottle water, thinking that there must be a leak in the coolant and it needed topping up to cool the engine down.

Just before he arrived, a very kind chap pulled up and happened to be a mechanic and said it was the head gasket and best not to drive it.

So here I now sit, having spent the best part of £4,000 on AVX for a grand total of about 50 miles of motoring in 14 months and with nothing but a bust head gasket to show for it.

I want to keep going to pull the old boy back together. I've already got the replacement panels for the body shop and the respray (with these guys: http://www.carcharm.co.uk), the interior (with these guys: https://www.kenscustoms.co.uk) and the hood (with Chortle) are all lined up to go, but the amount of mechanical works has severely dented my budget and (more worryingly) my will.

After my long winded story, I do actually have a few questions to ask and any help or guidance would be greatly appreciated.


1. What causes a head gasket to blow?
2. Why the hell did my head gasket blow after all the work that's been done?
3. Would I have any recourse on the garage or Spot? Though I feel they've all done their best for me.
4. Is it worth fixing the head gasket? What's a rough cost?
5. I've had a read in my Haynes manual and online and it seems like a straightforward, but rather skilled bit of work to carry out - roughly how long would it take a novice? I've got 3 young kids and spare time is at a premium, but I can put in 3/4 hours a week.
6. Should I "know when to hold 'em and know when to fold 'em" and just get rid of AVX? Or is everything repairable?



Apologies for the waffle, but I was genuinely heartbroken when the head gasket went yesterday 😢 and I don't know what to do for the best. I'm still trying to work out my options.

If anyone is willing to come and teach me how to change a head gasket, then I'm a very willing student, a relatively quick learner and can offer an endless supply of tea, coffee and digestives.

Best, Leigh

You seem to have everything on yoir doorstep or at least not far from, I recognise all them place names very well from my ex living in Burton, despite me living in south kent.

Im off to see Chortle next week and I'm nervous!

Anyway in short a head is not a hard thing to remove and if it was as simple as new gasket and head back on I would imagine your 3/4 hrs would be sufficient but I would get the head looked over first it may well need a skim.

Be nice to know why the gasket has gone after so little use

Call the garage which did the engine rebuild as they would of replaced the head gasket, perhaps the gasket they used was faulty?

mark1gls said

Call the garage which did the engine rebuild as they would of replaced the head gasket, perhaps the gasket they used was faulty?

And how do you prove that?!

If they took the head off the engine which I hope they would for an engine rebuild they would of replaced the head gasket…

Also to quote the 1st post…

"I picked AVX up from Spot (now with a 12,000 mile warranty on a 40 year old engine!) to drive it home."

Would it not be covered under the warranty?

I too would suspect that the Head Gasket was gone.
Removing a head isn't that hard. The previous shop that did the head work should of mic'ed the head and checked for warpage.

I have had bad head gaskets on Diesels and Gassers, shoot I bought my "Baby" with a bad gasket, and drove it about 200 miles home but I did take it easy and stopped every 50 miles to top off the fluids…. (first shake down test.)

I had the head checked for warpage, there wasn't any, and I used a new Gasket and new bolts, (required as the old bolts are stretch bolts and can't be re-used) If I had been smart I would of used the ARP Stud kit, as the studs bite into the block better, and are re-usable.  The caveat is that you torque the head down, and then in 500 miles you re-torque the bolts and should be good to go.  The ARP Stud kits are about 120USD, but as I said are re-useable, and I know that on the Diesels they prevent the gasket failure that I had seen as I had the 1.5 block where the bolts tend to fail on the ends.

While the head is off at the machine shop, I would also check to make sure that your block face is not warped with a straight edge.

IIRC the total damages to the pocket book when I did mine about 11 years ago, and 70K miles was 28 bucks for the machine shop to check for warpage,  3 dollars a bolt for new bolts, and 50 dollars for the head gasket dealer item.  I also bought a new timing belt and tensioner/stud.

The 12mmTS socket I had and the thing cost me about 40 dollars at Snapon. But I have had it since my dieseling days.

I personally have never seen a Head gasket go that caused water in the block to burn but it is possible, I usually have seen them over pressurize the engine with oil pressure in to the cooling system and cause a hose or flange to burst (plastic parts).  

I have seen the earlier cabs with the water stabilized oil coolers hole and allow oil pressure to over come the 14psi of the cooling system and cause over pressurizing of the hoses and they can burst a hose, split the expansion tank, radiator and plastic flanges, so you may want to check it all over very carefully.  

If you still have the engine together and can start the car, you may want to use the Glove test….Very cheap and effective way to diagnose a head gasket failure where the system is failing…..  

Cold Engine.
Remove the Expansion tank cap.
Tie a latex glove over the open hole and make it tight.
Start the engine, and then from under the hood rev the engine above 3000 rpm for 30-45 seconds, if the glove inflates and gives you the finger, then you can suspect either a blown head gasket, or Water stabilized oil cooler.  

Pressure testing the Radiator system checks the head as you are putting a pressure cap on the expansion jug.
The pumping about 14-18 psi in to the cooling system to see where the water is leaking out from.

I agree there is a negative air displacement issue with your previous shop, and it does rather hurt, but the issue is proper diagnosis and repair.

Not having the tools or skills to do the repairs yourself is costly on these critters….

mark1gls said

If they took the head off the engine which I hope they would for an engine rebuild they would of replaced the head gasket…

Also to quote the 1st post…

"I picked AVX up from Spot (now with a 12,000 mile warranty on a 40 year old engine!) to drive it home."

Would it not be covered under the warranty?

But it would be impossible to prove if there was a fault in the manufacture of the head gasket.?

Also to quote the OP…….

"
To celebrate I went to pick the kids up from school in AVX. When I left Castle Garage, I noticed a slight knocking noise in the engine. After picking up the kids that afternoon the knocking was still there and the power was very low and the car seemed very hot inside.

When we were driving home, white smoke started coming out of the exhaust. I didn't know what this meant and thought it was the engine clearing out some of the 5 years worth of gremlins in there. We promptly broke down.

A quick check under the bonnet, I'm no mechanic and don't have a clue what I'm looking at, but the coolant was empty. A friend of ours lived close by and I asked them to bring a bottle water, thinking that there must be a leak in the coolant and it needed topping up to cool the engine down."

How can the engine builder be expected to sort it out even if it was faulty after the OP continued to drive it whilst it was knocking and down on power to the point where it starts billowing white smoke. I'm sure the heads knackered now along with the rest of the engine for continuing to drive it whilst in that state.

I'm sorry but if the OP is hoping the warranty is worth more than the paper its written on then he should have stopped it at the first point of hearing/ feeling a problem.  Who in their right mind thinks that it must be OK for a rebuilt engine to billow out white smoke and is just clearing its self after a long lay up. Some people just shouldn't own old cars.  

Hopefully you get some helpful answers, briano offer help to diagnose some issues.
Sounds bad but dont forget these engine take some breaking and a replacement engine can be found for peanuts if you are prepared to go that far.
Depending on skill level and confidence theres somethings you can do,  and some things maybe local forum members can help with.

From the sound so of it the head gaskets, gone for sure.. so photograph around the engine, make labels and paint marks etc to identify where parts are going, and then you can start removing ancillary items etc. to get to the head.  removing the head will allow you to see gasket and check yourself for visable damage or gasket fitted wrong way round(someposts recently point to this).
Some nice forum posts will hopefully give some further basic checks.
You could then drop the head at the garage and say please check your work, and investigate this.  youve saved them some time and garage space, and thats to their benefit. You can save a few hours cost, and reduce bills.  (you can agree to do this with them as part of the "insurance" as stated any policys are 99% useless) but you can try.
Even get the garage to transport your car back.
Get the correct engine code for you car, and look on ebay for a cheap engine..(50-200£) get that as a spare… or temp… get them to drop in at there cost(insurance or good will of garage) run around until your original engine is sorted.or scrapped.

AND dont worry not everyone is engine savvy, i'm definately not, and yet i work in engineering working on finer tolerances than cars, but cars i drive i don't have to confidence in how easy it can be to do.. skimming is easy…measuring is easy, the tricky bit is concentrating on the parts that matter.

Also on your post you failed to hide your personal details, so we all can see your name and location, so edit that for for own internet safety.  but around ashby there are some good guys, and fairly good people to help. Think the most recommend person on site is Bert, for engine work and general work,  chortle is floppy roofs. Andy Day is was/is around stamford, and will know someone to help look or rebuild.

Maybe even a hosted BBQ and beer party invite will get members arriving to talk and strip an engine out. Even a swap , you never know….. Keep the faith, theres people whom havent even driven there cars for years, so at least you got to try it, before it failed.

You are within your rights to question the garage as looking at the bills its failed within 2 months, and how many miles?  It wont be the gasket thats failed, its almost impossible/to prove  to have a failed gasket, its the fitting that causing  gasket failure.
You could get with citizens advice etc, or just talk to the garage, take your neighbor whom you says a mechanic/or confident to talk with the garage.

kind regards and good luck..   Kenny



For instance i've an 1.8 engine, no history,but has gear box and runs, drops oil…from sump, but only cost me 120£ ive done 1500 miles on it, and runs, cost 200£ and beers to drop it in whilst my original engine was rebuilt.

That original engine been rebuilt,stored, sold, run, and removed from a car..and ive bought it back again its in my garage with rocker and belts off.. lol as a spares unit.

These little engines are resilient. They take a beating and still run….Exception is the Diesel and 16v which are interference engines, the Gassers aren't and usually only one thing or another goes.  

Gassers I have had blown gaskets and timing belts and after replacing them they ran fine. I have a vid of my Green cab with a broken timing belt that would spin the crank, and alternator but never move the cam . …..

Diesels I have had the new timing belt strip a couple of teeth, and the pistons smacking the head with the valves open did quite a lot of damage where I had to replace the engine… The new to me engine with 130K on it (same as what I had in mine for mileage) would blow the head gasket about every 6 or 8 months, (oil leaking out of the head to block between the 3rd and 4th cylinders)…and over pressuring the radiator hoses… so I got really good at replacing the head gaskets the quickest was about 2 and a half hours start to end.

Now knocking someone for inattention while driving well reminds me of my wife following me on a cross country trek, the Kids were in the Rabbit with her and the
left side heater hose holed…. They were in the car singing and carrying on as they do, and she didn't catch the water temp climb or the billowing white cloud out the rear…. . I saw it in the rear view mirror…..

We got the new hose at a Store, I put it on, and well another head gasket issue as the car was pressurizing the hoses, but we drove it another 200 miles, (well I did).
and this was a 3000 mile adventure in moving back across the USofA with me driving a Uhaul Truck towing a big Oldmobile, and the wife driving the Kiddies in the Rabbit…. Days before Cell Phones, and we had cheap walkie-talkies to communicate with…

Decided that I would do the head gasket at the in-laws when we got there….

So ca-ca can occur at any time…. I didn't see the hose as being an issue so I suspect that it was getting weak, and the head gasket had already failed and hadn't started leaking out the sides yet….

I had the head checked and no issues with warpage…If I had only known about the internet (pre-internet and forum days) I would of known about the ARP stud kits for the 1.5's….

As for engines that have been sitting or only used for short hops can have white smoke out the back until all the condensations clears, and on a cool morning this can take 20 minutes…..

Sweet smelling white smoke out the rear always indicates to me a head gasket failure as the old Green type of A/F is sweet smelling as it burns in the exhaust.

So let's not cast aspersions, or deride folks..lets educate, and assist where we can.  

Skills can be acquired, as well as manuals, and tools with the help of members of the forums we can help you get it running correctly again…..

Unlike some I have been wrenching on cars for quite a few decades….all kinds, but have a fondness for the older MG's and Sprites…Miss my Rover 3500s and that is the only car I have ever really missed, now the Diesel Rabbit was a trusted friend that served me well for 2 decades….but I was sad to see it go….but I don't miss it like I do my Rover and that has been over 40 years ago…

Back to our regularly scheduled thread… We can reminisce….later… Ca-Ca occurs, Ship Happens, we learn, and move on.

for 2400 pound they would
need to sort it trading standards
will sort it for you

nicci21paul said

for 2400 pound they would
need to sort it trading standards
will sort it for you

I agree, this is unacceptable and your first point of contact should be to contact the engine rebuilder. As soon as you heard it knocking though, you should have been on the phone to them to get the car trailered to them for investigation. You can't prove a faulty part, but it is reasonable to expect a newly built engine to last more than a few miles.  Keep us posted on how you get on.

Hello folks,

Thank you all for your feedback and comments, there's some good advice in there, for what I now realise was a mail "tinged" with an outpour of emotion and riddled with frustration.

I know I have a lot to learn and I'm getting there one bolt at a time.  There's a schadenfreudic delight to be had in fixing the array of errors that arise on AVX, and skills only improve one issue at a time.  For example, I now know that knocking and smoke = a quick death.

To update you all:- I phoned and spoke to Spot and the guy there was profusely apologetic, said he'd sort it under the warranty no problems and his recovery team are coming to collect AVX on Monday. +10 points for Spot, excellent customer service.

I was unsure which of the garages to contact first as I don't know what actually causes a head gasket to blow.  The chaps at Spot have said they'll show me exactly how it all works and what caused it to blow in the first place, why it made a knocking noise and what causes the smoke.

Yomp ,  I must say that I was rather disappointed with your comments which are very unbecoming of a moderator for a post in a group called "Help".  If you want to mock, then have a look here: Reddit - Dive into anything or here: Reddit - Dive into anything.  I expected better from my Mk1 Brethren.

Best, Leigh

Good news the garage will pick the car up and have a look for you, fingers crossed its a simple fix and you are not with out the car for long.

Just take it steady when the car comes back to run things in
eg. no more that 1/2 throttle and try not to go over 3,500 rpm for the 1st 1000 miles, if it was me and I did change the oil and filter also after the 1st 1000 miles incase there is any bits or cleaning agents left in the engine after the rebuild.


To be honest I don't do a lot to my engine or car, it's my daily drive so just keep on top of the regular 12 month service which i do my self and drive the thing…. in 26 odd years and 260,000 miles of driving it as a daily it's never let me stranded at the side of the road or seen a recovery truck.

Try and learn how to do an oil change and use a good quality oil filter, MANN or a genuine VW filter is £5 ish and good quality oil is £16 ish so for around £21 oil change done…

AVS Car Parts

https://www.vwspares.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=1179

These old cars don't have many warning lights or a silly computer with lots of sensors (which go wrong)  so you will need to listen and feel how things are going as they usually give you some warning things are starting to go pair shaped, the odd knocking noise, will not start very well when hot, car stalls when stopping at a junction, vibration through steering wheel etc…

Don't thrash it till car is warmed up and engine oil above 80 degrees, I do sometimes drive mine like I stole it and you don't have to go at silly speeds to get the feeling of going quickly especially on those b roads….

Keep us updated on how it goes with the repair and some of us on here are very happy to help/offer advice but it's sometimes tricky to tell someone whats wrong exactly with their car as we are not standing in front of it..

Please don't be afraid to ask anything or there's plenty of reading on the internet as most things have been asked etc.  

the internet what you do before
work it out for your self or give in

ooh dear the head gasket has gone local
parts shop head gasket £5 an hour later
sorted

LeighH
Its good the engine builders have agreed to sort it for you and I do apologise for my earlier post.
Being a mod  on here for 10 years you get to see all sorts of questions and answers. Occasionally its the answers that are more questionable than the problem itself.  I was probably having a bad day.  I hope you sort your car soon and get to enjoy the summer with it.
Now I'm off to moderate myself!

Yomp said

LeighH
Its good the engine builders have agreed to sort it for you and I do apologise for my earlier post.
Being a mod  on here for 10 years you get to see all sorts of questions and answers. Occasionally its the answers that are more questionable than the problem itself.  I was probably having a bad day.  I hope you sort your car soon and get to enjoy the summer with it.
Now I'm off to moderate myself!

I must admit when i read the post I thought Yomp  account had been hacked or something  

Glad they are sorting it (as they should IMO)

Keep on keeping on. It's the only way. Believe me I know, I've just replaced my entire fuel system for the 3rd time and replaced all my ignition equipment only for my diff to give up the ghost!

Ian

Hello folks,

Update on AVX; The guys at Spot have stripped the engine down and they've discovered that the engine block has 2 hairline fractures in it, so they're going to source me a new block, all under warranty!

They asked for pointers of who to speak to about getting hold of a block, and I pointed them at Deutsche Doktors in Stoke, because Stoke and Derby (where Spot are based) are not too far from one another.  Has anyone had any dealings with Deutsche Doktors?  From what I can find, they seem like a decent bunch.  Any other suggestions of where Spot could call to get hold of a block?

Best, Leigh

For 1.6,engine you could try oly Moss or raja Rahim via facebook.or crazyquiffs  whom do engine conversion,
they must take a engine out …. They do turn up occasionally.