Appreciating classics.

Hello there, hypothetical question… kind of. 

I may or may not be in the market for another classic car.

Budget 10-20k. A classic that will give me a return in say 5-10 years. 

I'm thinking vw, Porsche, Mercedes, bmw?

What would you be looking at and why?

Mercedes CE/E class coupe, must be 100% mint and original with low mileage, you would get that for the bottom of your budget, towards the top then the Cabriolet version.

Alfa GTV V6 again mint and low mileage, these are seriously cheap at moment

Jaguar XKR8 Convertible, under 50k mikes with full service history

My view is with the budget you have spend at the lower end as I think more people are in market for a 10-20k car in future than a 20-30k car.

Originality/ low ownership  is the key no modifications at all that can't be reversed.

i bought a 2003 TT in 2016 low mileage, mint and original with one owner, paid top price for it, I could have got something useable for half the price. now this is going to take a long while to appreciate , but when I bought mine there were virtually none at the price I paid, now there are many, indicating the market is starting to turn.
 

Yeah for sure, this will be totally standard, and just loved and kept tip top. 

I'd not thought about jags to be honest, A lot can be had for the money. 

Those Mercs you said about have always been on my list. 

As for Alfa's, never crossed my mind, still don't to be honest… they are gorgeous, but they're not me. 

Oh and no cabriolets, I can't get my head around them, maybe because I'm introverted and I'll feel too exposed in one.

Porsche 968 have crossed my mind, but they're going above and beyond my 'budget' mostly for a good one. 

An early 60's beetle maybe… though again I fear these have already bloomed. 

Saab 900 Turbo? Love a Saab me!

Roach

Ever thought of sticking with what you really know (not suggesting for one minute you don't know your cars)?
Do you remember me writing about investing in Golf's now about a month ago (really good ones of course) and putting them back on the market in the lead up to it's 50th Birthday?

To recap.
I said that if you were watching the market in the 3 years leading up to it's 40th the prices went through the roof.
It even had an impact on parts prices and the gains that were achieved were in fact sustained even now.

If you buy the right ones and just sit on them and did nothing what so ever the worst you would get is a 30-40% return.
But if you in your spare time do a little proper cleaning, polishing and even just a bit of easy mechanical your could be seeing a profit of 50-60% and up.

That's what I witnessed.
That's what I wanted to do with that perfect 1977 GLS Auto, 5dr for 12k but the guy never returned my calls.  
I would have used it when the right occasion presented itself for a small profit to cover it's annual maintenance costs.

Then when it was coming close to it's 49th birthday, advertise it correctly and start with a price tag of 19,900.
Just like fishing, stay focused and wait for a bit.

You can always go down in price but never up!  


So in theory if I was to get that one I'd also buy maybe another two or three at 3k to 4k and sit on them as well.
As to not have all my eggs in one basket!  


Just a thought and good luck with whatever you do.  


Mike.
 

You know what, I have thought about buying a Mk1 gti. It's a no brainer in terms of investment. 
I've also thought about a mk2 g60, and various other golfs.
But I think it's time I spread my wings and get something I've never had before. Although that said, if the right golf presented itself at the right time, I'd jump on it… even a good Corrado VR6.

I've had bugs before, I do know my way around the older aircooled stuff. A good type 3 is never off the cards either. 

Roach said

You know what, I have thought about buying a Mk1 gti. It's a no brainer in terms of investment. 
I've also thought about a mk2 g60, and various other golfs.
But I think it's time I spread my wings and get something I've never had before. Although that said, if the right golf presented itself at the right time, I'd jump on it… even a good Corrado VR6.

I've had bugs before, I do know my way around the older aircooled stuff. A good type 3 is never off the cards either. 

Roach

Well you're an experienced man.
You know if you've got a scratch, ich it, wherever you find it! thumbs:

Mike
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Personally I'd go 'proper' classic rather retro.

At the budget you're looking at you'd be able to get something interesting and in good condition.

TBH i think everything is on the rise due to the lack of interest available in bank accounts or returns on shares at the moment.

Unless you go Bit Coin of course  

How about an Opel GT? I know where there's one for sale………

Ian

Bit coin blows my mind…. I'll stick with cars I reckon. 

Opel GT is a bit out there even for me…. and I consider myself to have a broad range of cars I'd rinse 20k on.

If you are looking at Jags, forget the XK8, go for the XKR as it's got a super charger fitted and get the bigger wheels.
 My brothers got one, lovely car to drive and plenty of torque. They are expensive to run as lucky if you get 20mpg but a lot of fun and plenty of gadgets to play with like when you get in the steering wheel moves up then down once in the seat. They do rust though so look around rear wheel arches.

Not sure on if the prices will rise as with all big engine cars it’s a bit of a gamble….

 Something like this is what my brothers got, not sure about the add on jumping jaguar on the bonnet, thats not standard….

Price a bit high for this one on eBay…

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2001-51-JAGUAR-XKR-4-0-XKR-2D-AUTO-370-BHP/202275819763?hash=item2f189410f3:g:afoAAOSwh41avs49

It will be cheaper to get road tax for this one as it’s on a Y plate.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Jaguar-XKR-4-0-Supercharged-2dr-2001-Y/132571441649?hash=item1edddfa9f1:g:VGcAAOSwzXxaCaPS


 

Are you meaning a classic that you can run to enjoy and almost as a by-product get you £ back with some on top when you come to sell or just buy and leave in a garage for a few years?

Even without repairs running a classic can cost £500-£1,000 a year, insurance, tax, the odd set of new tyres, battery, servicing etc, x10 years would lave you @£5,000-£10,000 if you just put that money under the mattress………

Oh yeah absolutely, a car is for driving.. I'd never buy a car to just leave in a garage… that said, it'd not go out much at all. Maybe the few weeks of summer we get.  

Maybe I worded it slightly wrong, I'm not looking for a money maker as such, I just don't want to throw 10-20k in the bin… You see I don't keep cars, I'm a serial seller and buyer… example; I really want a v8 AMG Merc, but I know if I spunk 20k on one, I'll lose big time when I sell in a few years. 

Cash under the mattress is uncomfortable, plus cash in my pocket burns holes… I'll slowly chip away at it on rubbish. 

Maybe Mike is right, I should buy an old aircooled vw and stick to what I know… I've always made money on them in the past, maybe that was just luck, who knows. 

Yeah that's the advantage of running a 'classic' compared to a new-ish motor, depreiaction free motoring and as your question implies, if you choose the right one a tidy profit too.

I know you don't like convertible's but most Jag convertibles usually come good in the end, XJS for example………

A SAAB turbo would be fun to run and they have stopped making them so that should increase rarity.

Fast Fords even outstrip VWs on the appreciate curve even though until recent Fester and Focus STs they were err… not very good cars.

The easy money is made at the low end but I'll explain.

Buy a car (Golf in this example) at 2-3k needing a little TLC and knowledge and keep stored for the next 4 to 5 years.

Do nothing else but wait.
Then bring it out freshen it up and let's say you paid 2k for it plus costs.

Study the market if you have time but if not stick a price on it with really good photos and write up and advertise it for £3.500.

Sit back and wait for the bits.
Do that x3 or x5, different models what ever but the best bit is that you haven't put all your eggs in one basket.

The 3 to 5 or even 6k nowadays market is the bread and butter for making a profit. Without the used car sales dealerships selling new cars only simply couldn't survive.

It's the same mathematics now as back in the day.
Your overall profit as a dealer comes used car sales, your workshop then new car sales followed lastly the parts department in that order. If you have fuel as well that's a different ball game all together.

Even back in the 80's I would always make as much money normally from the sale of one used car like this example then I would from 2 or 3 brand new Golf's!

My colleagues didn't like going outside when it's raining or cold winter days but I loved and now you know why!

Another trade secret given away for free and is only available on this forum.


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Love Mikes salesman stories.

cabriolet said

Love Mikes salesman stories.

cabriolet

The funny thing is all that I share about buying and selling back then were all true.

I absolutely loved selling used cars because unlike a new car where all the dealers in the country has one. Used cars are totally individual and no two are the same. So if you have a talent for it and sell the car on its individual merits your quids in.

Unlike new cars where your fighting for every pound and penny.
Low profits means even lower commission and when you are only paid commission and you lose a new car deal for £5 it can really hurt because you might have all the demos and stuff.

Maybe one day I'll tell you the story of when I sold 6 cars to 6 different customers in one Sunday. I doubt very much whether any one car salesman has ever done that before or since!


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