Rough idle + Prowlers injector test
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#859757
(In Topic #102572)
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Rough idle + Prowlers injector test
I am new on here, just posted a message in the New members section
I am hoping somone can help me with my problem, I have a 79 GTI with original 1.6 engine. When I bought the car I knew it wasn't right but it drove 2 hours home on the motorway ok.
Problem is a rough idle warm or cold. So far I have done the following..
1. Full service - all ignition components apart from the coil (it now starts nice and easy but still runs rough)
2. New intake gasket
3. Retorqued intake / exhaust manifolds.
4. Checked for other intake air leaks
5. Checked Aux air valve
6. New fuel filter
7. Mixture / timing
8. Car had a new cam belt fairly recently, so have checked correct alignment of pulleys etc.
9. checked resistance across pressure regulator
10. compression test (all cylinders approx 170 psi)
Next thing I would like to do is prowlers injector test, the test looks great and I am fairly confident my problem lies somewhere with the fuel system, the issue I have is that it details the fuel pump relay connections in a series 2 fusebox and mine is completely different. Has anyone done the test on a series 1 or have a good diagram / instruction manual for a series 1 showing the fuel pump relay location ?
Any help really appreciated
Many thanks
Kev
Posted
Old Timer
Re: Rough idle + Prowlers injector test
kevm said
….. it details the fuel pump relay connections in a series 2 fusebox and mine is completely different. Has anyone done the test on a series 1 or have a good diagram / instruction manual for a series 1 showing the fuel pump relay location ?
Any help really appreciated
…can't find a S1 diag of fuse box, and certainly have no pic, so if ANYONE can help out I can update the guide…..
Owning a Mk1 cabby is a vertical learning curve…
1989 Mk1 Clipper 1.8 automatic - Sadly now up for sale - medical issues dictate)
1999 (Nov) Passat S Saloon 1.9 TDI (AFN) - TUG 1 (Remap by CCC ( - **** …..change pants !!) with cruise control
2000 (Mar) Passat Sport Estate 1.9 TDI (ATJ) 5 speed automatic with Tiptronic - TUG 2 (Remap and cruise control by CCC)
1989 Mk1 Clipper 1.8 automatic - Sadly now up for sale - medical issues dictate)
1999 (Nov) Passat S Saloon 1.9 TDI (AFN) - TUG 1 (Remap by CCC ( - **** …..change pants !!) with cruise control
2000 (Mar) Passat Sport Estate 1.9 TDI (ATJ) 5 speed automatic with Tiptronic - TUG 2 (Remap and cruise control by CCC)
Posted
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test
I wondered if there is any reason I can't just disconnect the hotwire or HT lead from the coil and use the ignition switch instead of the shorting wire for the test. Any reason why this would not work / be safe ?
Cheers
Kev
Posted
Old Timer
…you COULD IN THEORY just connect a switched supply direct to the pump…….but observe all safety precautions…….I just found it easier and quicker to go via the relay connections…
..still looking for S! fuse/relay box diag - sure I got one SOMEWHERE !!!!
Owning a Mk1 cabby is a vertical learning curve…
1989 Mk1 Clipper 1.8 automatic - Sadly now up for sale - medical issues dictate)
1999 (Nov) Passat S Saloon 1.9 TDI (AFN) - TUG 1 (Remap by CCC ( - **** …..change pants !!) with cruise control
2000 (Mar) Passat Sport Estate 1.9 TDI (ATJ) 5 speed automatic with Tiptronic - TUG 2 (Remap and cruise control by CCC)
1989 Mk1 Clipper 1.8 automatic - Sadly now up for sale - medical issues dictate)
1999 (Nov) Passat S Saloon 1.9 TDI (AFN) - TUG 1 (Remap by CCC ( - **** …..change pants !!) with cruise control
2000 (Mar) Passat Sport Estate 1.9 TDI (ATJ) 5 speed automatic with Tiptronic - TUG 2 (Remap and cruise control by CCC)
Posted
Local Hero
The fuel pump relay goes in position L - I looked up the relay pinout in the wiring diagram in the Haynes manual and bridged the relevant connections with a switch, and that worked fine.
Can't remember which ones they were though, it was so long ago.
HTH
Rich
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sorted
Thanks again, i'll come back with results tomorrow hopefully.
Kev
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results
The fuel pump may prime, the injectors may chatter and a small amount of fuel may flow but should then stop. There should be no fuel flow to the injectors until the plate is lifted.
The spray pattern looks ok with the plate lifted but there is fuel flow out of all injectors with a small jet coming out at an angle on at least one of them when the plate is sitting, I do also have the warm start problem I think, would this also cause the rough idle ? If so maybe I have found the fault ??
Cheers
Kev
Posted
Local Hero
Have you cleaned them with anything, or are you just investigating at this stage?
Rich
Posted
Old Timer
Bosch Fuel Injection (up to and including Lambda) - 6Mb
Kjet 8v Fuel Injection
…with fuel coming through and the plate down suggests either bad injectors or the plate adjustment is out….can't explain at mo - flu has affected my brain..!!!
Owning a Mk1 cabby is a vertical learning curve…
1989 Mk1 Clipper 1.8 automatic - Sadly now up for sale - medical issues dictate)
1999 (Nov) Passat S Saloon 1.9 TDI (AFN) - TUG 1 (Remap by CCC ( - **** …..change pants !!) with cruise control
2000 (Mar) Passat Sport Estate 1.9 TDI (ATJ) 5 speed automatic with Tiptronic - TUG 2 (Remap and cruise control by CCC)
1989 Mk1 Clipper 1.8 automatic - Sadly now up for sale - medical issues dictate)
1999 (Nov) Passat S Saloon 1.9 TDI (AFN) - TUG 1 (Remap by CCC ( - **** …..change pants !!) with cruise control
2000 (Mar) Passat Sport Estate 1.9 TDI (ATJ) 5 speed automatic with Tiptronic - TUG 2 (Remap and cruise control by CCC)
Posted
Settling In
Cheers
Kev
Posted
Settling In
Help please
OK I have an update, I have fitted new injectors and it has fixed the warm start issue but the engine will still not idle properly. I have also renewed / ruled out the coil and HT leads.
So the rough idle persists, basically the engine shakes badly at idle and will only run a bit better with the timing advanced futher than it should be.
Therefore to recap I have done the following to try and cure the problem, many of these things needed doing anyway so its not all bad news:-
1. Full service - all ignition components apart from the coil
2. New intake gasket
3. Retorqued intake / exhaust manifolds.
4. Checked for other intake air leaks
5. Checked Aux air valve
6. New fuel filter
7. Mixture / timing
8. Car had a new cam belt fairly recently, so have checked correct alignment of pulleys etc.
9. checked resistance across pressure regulator
10. compression test (all cylinders approx 170 psi)
11. Coil
12. HT leads
13. New Injectors
Looking at the history the car had a new cam belt earlier this year and the receipt also lists 'Investigate rough running' clearly this has been a problem for a while !
I had already checked the cambelt had been fitted correctly but can you confirm I have done it right - I have checked the marks at TDC on the crank pulley and the cam gear ? here's some pics of the marks, do they look ok or should I check further ? I have read about a futher sprocket under the cam belt cover ?
Apologies for the long post but I just want to use the car now
Any help appreciated.
Cheers
Kev
Posted
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So I am still looking for ideas on what to check next
Thanks
Kev
Posted
Local Hero
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wooders said
o.k. so are timed correctly at the dizzy with a gun? have you set the co and idle screw?
I have timed it correctly with a timing gun but don't have anything to set the mixture with, I have noticed however the engine runs alot better when I disconnect the advance pipes from the dizzy to set the timing specifically the pipe that connects to the main intake body (not the throttle body connection) therefore I am assuming the extra air its taking in when disconnected means its too rich in the first place.
Does that sound correct ? if so hopefully just need to get my mixture sorted
Cheers
Kev
Posted
Local Hero
bearing in mind, the vac pipe retards the ignition under load, so it shouldn't run too well, then it is very possible that the co may just need setting. give it a full turn anticlockwise and see how she is.
Posted
Local Hero
HTH
Rich
Posted
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Thanks
Kev
Posted
Local Hero
Once you've eliminated that you can move on to testing other things…
HTH
Rich
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mcscrew said
Check your idle screw - if it's too far in the engine won't get enough air at idle, which will cause rough running and hunting.
Once you've eliminated that you can move on to testing other things…
HTH
Rich
Ok I have checked my idle screw, it does what it should do, all the way out fast idle but screwed in to put revs at about 900-1000 rpm the idle is still rough and it hunts badly. What should I check next, I don't think there's much left :roll:
Thanks
Kev
Posted
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Anyway I have done the injector test again, hadn't done it since I replaced them. Looks like I may have wasted some money buying new injectors, they still spray / drip without the plate in the metering head being raised, if I apply light downward pressure to the plate they do all stop dripping, does this mean the metering head needs adjustment or is the system pressure wrong ?
I have also removed the sender from the top of the tank and had a good look inside, looks very clean with no sign of rust or dirt.
So is the next step a fuel pressure test ? I can't really afford to take it to a garage at the moment (it won't start at the mo anyway )
Thanks
Kev
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