16vg60; Advice on last few things

Hi there, having spent some time and money (some??? lol) building my 16vg60 engine for my mk1 (which is still in the bodyshop) im coming close to completing it and wanted some advice on a few things.
  Firstly my old standard gti pump has seen better days and im going to be buying a new one.  I know the standard gti pump is up to the job but are there any others out there worth considering?  Would i get away with a standard fuel filter on this conversion as my plan was to mount it in the accumulator bracket underneath the car.
  Im considering running braided fuel hose throughout and wondered if there are any disadvantages compared to hard piping apart?  Where would i get it from and what fittings would i use to connect up the pump and filter?
  Im going to be running distributerless ignition and need to mount a coil, probably where the distributer was.  There are kits available to do all this but they are from the states and i already have most of the things i need.  What coil would people recommend i go with?  Also is it possible to have HT leads made up to specific lengths to suit the coil placement?  Thanks.

I'm using a Bosch 044 pump which is used on many an engine conversion/upgrade without issue. Was about £110 if memory serves.

HTH

I'm running a new Beetle/Golf 4 coil pack in wasted spark mode on my ABF, comes with an integrated ignition module so I can trigger it directly from my aftermarket ECU. I mounted it where the distributor used to be so the stock 16V leads worked perfectly. I fitted my pump, fuel pressure regulator and filter under the car next to the tank and used a single braided hose (running at 3 bar) to supply the fuel rail. This setup worked well with my 8V and 16V engines.

Cracking engine bay you've got there Torker. Top notch mate.  

I have the standard GTI pump and the filter mounted where the accumulator use to be.

My coil is a Gen 1 Ford one, Emerald recommended it, although I think that they currently recommend the Gen 2 version. I got mine from here:
http://www.lloydspecialistdevelopments.co.uk/ford-gen.1-type-4-cylinder-coil-pack
It is mounted where the dissy once was, I made an aluminium frame for it.

I then measured for leads and had a custom set made from Magnecor to suit the 16V plugs and Ford Gen 1 coil pack. http://www.magnecor.co.uk/custom_sets.asp

I got myself a roll of Copper/Nickel and made my own fuel lines up using the original fixings - it was a pain to do but worked out well.

the stock gti pump is fine for this, way over-spec in fact! for fuel lines no need for the original banjo type fittings, you can use push fit rubber pipe as its less pressure (kjet is at least 5bar, sometimes a bit more. EFI system will be 3-4 bar depending on your FPR)

you can conver the fuel pump to push fit with an M12x1.5 barbed banjo adaptor, 7 or 8mm barbed fitting. you can bin the fuel accumulator as well, put a mk2/3 digifant fuel filter in its place. then its a case of choose your fuel line material, if you go rubber make sure its suitable for modern fuel! I would go with oem mk2/3/polo plastic fuel lines, and just use rubber pipes for the ends

I'm thinking buy a replacement stock gti pump for starters and stick with hard fuel lines.
 Would those polo plastic lines actually fit rub Johnny? 
 I was also thinking I'd mount the filter in the fuel accumulator bracket if it would fit?
  Then there is the FPR.  How did you mount yours under the car torker? 
  For those people running EFI,  how have you achieved a good idle as there is nothing in place to provide any idle stabilisation on my build or will this be taken care of purely by the ECU?

I run the standard G60 ISV that is controlled by the Emerald, idle is rock solid. It did take the guys at Enerald a little while to get it spot on as the charger causes air drag.
In the idle circuit I also have one of those one way ball valves that closes under boost because the ISV's are notoriously leaky.

Excellent, thanks.  Torker what ECU are you using?
  Ok so it looks like ill need an ISV too then and figure out where to mount it.  
  Ill look into the gen 2 ford coilpacks, along with the stock 16V HT leads so long as the connectors are compatible ill be ok.
Ive emailed DTA to find out what coils their ECUs are compatible with, i didnt realise some had a built in ignition module :/.

When I started my build I decided to go with an uncluttered engine bay (not shaved). To this effect I relocated everything that I could, including the filter and fpr. I used a Walbro pump and Polo fuel filter, the one with the integrated 3bar fuel pressure regulator. I made brackets for the pump and the filter and mounted them in the space next to the tank. The tank itself is from a late model fuel injected Citi Golf, it comes with a 10mm outlet and 8mm return. The filter got three ports, an inlet fed by the pump, a return that goes back into the tank and an outlet that supplies the fuel rail at a constant 3bar. There is no provision for a vacuum compensation so the compensation is done on the ECU when setting it up.

Despite having relatively wild cams (282/288 in my ABF and 288/288 in my 16V) idling is not a problem with throttles. First start on a cold morning it needs some assistance to keep the idling going but when I hit the stop street just up the road from my house it idles fine. This is all down to the ECU setup and playing with the timing around the idle mark, no idle stabilisation, just the throttle stops on the throttles itself. Calibrating the throttles plays a role as well, having the throttle openings exactly the same at idle will promote smooth idling as well.

I'm using a local engine management called Dicktator, most guys I know use it because of ease of installation and setup.

Great thanks torker.  I think ill stick to a standard gti pump and filter and mount a FPR in the engine bay but i like the way you have done things.
  So far im opting to go for DTA but im still undecided.  Ive heard good things about emerald too so not sure which way to go.
  Would it be prudent to run a lift pump along with a standard pump also?  

The lift pump is only there because VW standardised the later tanks to one type. It worked for both carb and injection engines

Ok well from what ive read so far my plan is to buy a genuine replacement GTI pump and filter.  Fit the filter in the accumulator location. No lift pump with the original GTI fuel tank.
  Run hard lines underneath the car then braided lines in the engine bay.
  Still not decided on DTA or Emerald but i dont think there is much in it.
  The gen2 ford coilpacks look like a good bet and ill make a bracket to suit it and mount that on the distributer blank i already have.
  Im now looking into which wideband lambda kit is worth going for, another can of worms by the looks of it.
  

Well it seems more people than not are recommending i fit a lift pump.  Can anyone tell me if a cabrio lift pump would fit a standard gti tank and how it all plumbs in?

I really cannot understand why you would even attempt such a thing.

Ask yourself why a lift pump was fitted to the post 84 tanks ? It was so that VW could consolidate to a single tank design for both carb and GTI models.

Tin top tanks have the fuel feed to the main pump at the bottom of the tank, so gravity feeds the fuel. In later cabby tanks the lift pump draws fuel out of the bottom of the tank and feeds the main pump as the main pump would quickly burn out trying to draw the fuel out - actually this is a common post 84 cabby issue as the lift pump starts to fail, more current is drawn by the main pump, which heats the relay and in worst cases melts the solder and corrodes the relay plate pins.

Ok so imagine your fuel level was quite low, your flat out round a corner, full throttle, fuel pick up draws in air, engine leans out……
  This is the reason i think most people are suggesting i fit a lift pump?? makes sense to me.

The lift pump sits in the centre of the tank and has more chance of fuel starvation than the low point gravity feed.

You are dreaming up problems that do not exist.

Thats where the swirl pot would come into it, a constant source of fuel.  Im only relaying what the majority of people have suggested across different forums.  Believe me i dont want things to get any more complicated than they are i guess im wanting to be safe rather than sorry, id be rather devastated if i managed to blow the thing up.  After looking more into this and reading through a few threads over on club gti it appears that over time the rubber bung which is located at the bottom of the integral swirl pot in the gti tanks degrades over time.  This then allows fuel back out of the central collection point where the fuel pick up is located and the swirl pot becomes ineffective.  Seeing as though original gti tanks like mine are are over over 30 years old now I think its worth highlighting the potential for this to have happened by now.  Add to it the increased fuel demand and more spirited driving brought about by having an extra 100 odd hp and you can see why this isn't just a problem ive invented myself.
  If the GTI tank was in as new condition im sure it wouldn't be a concern but you cant even source a genuine replacement now.

If you do go down the lift pump route then you will need the "fuel reservoir" as well, as that is what acts as a swirl pot on post 84 cabbys.

the trouble is the cab/rocco/polo lifter pump wont fit the gti tank as tghe swirl pot gets in the way, so to start with i would check the condition of the GTI swirl pot. piccies here:
http://vwgolfmk1.org.uk/forum/index.php?page=topicview&id=how-to_2%2Ffuel-tank-cleaning_3

if all good, great leave it stock. if not then you'll have to think of another solution either swap the tank for carb, or maybe fit a facet type inline pump on the bottom outlet.

either way you'll need an external swirl pot of some kind fed from lifter or inline pump to ensure the main is always supplied with fuel. the main reason a swirl pot is required in any sertup is the VW pump requires a constant supply of fuel otherwise it will die, as the fuel also lubricates the pump internals